The Fantastic Four movie will be released in America this weekend (with most of the rest of the world to follow in the next week), and expectations are high. Sure, there have been some bad reviews, but isn't that always how it goes with superhero movies? To give you a more in depth look at the Fantastic Four, the characters, the comic and the history, we interviewed Sean Kleefeld, editor of the biggest Fantastic Four website on the planet, www.ffplaza.com. He was voted Comics Biggest Fan by Diamond Distributors in 2003 (that's the biggest distributor of comics in the world, in case you were wondering) and obviously knows his Fantastic Four...
Scribble King: How did you become such a big fan of the Fantastic Four? There are so many different comic series around, what was it about the Fantastic, Four that struck such a nerve with you?
Sean Kleefeld: I've been reading comics as long as I can remember. The earliest ones were mostly Superman and Batman stories -- a combination of Action, Detective and World's Finest. I didn't follow any titles religiously at the time; I just enjoyed the escapism and fantasy of the heroes. One year, my parents picked a handful of new comics as a birthday present for me -- I think they just grabbed some comics with neat covers off the spinner rack at the local 7-11 or something. But one of those was Fantastic Four #254 by John Byrne.
Now I had seen the FF before, in a couple issues of Marvel's Greatest Comics. But that particular story ended with the Thing getting "killed" and I remember thinking when I first read it, "What a gyp! Just as I was starting to get to know this guy, he dies! I think I'll just go back to Superman and Batman." Ironically, FF #254 ends with the "death" of Mr. Fantastic. This time, though, I was so completely engaged with and engrossed by the characters, I had to hunt down #255. And #256. And #257... And I eventually realized that there were another 253 stories that I didn't have!
There were a few things, I think, with Byrne's story that really struck me. First, it was an almost alien concept to me that human explorers, meeting an alien race for the first time, didn't involve explosions and space ships and ray guns and such. Second, these weren't superheroes and there was no real "bad guy" in the traditional sense. The antagonist of the issue was an alien just trying to go home (albeit in a rather harsh and unsympathetic manner). Third, the characterizations really gripped me -- these seemed like real people acting with each other in a very real way. It was very definitely a case of my chancing upon just the right story at just the right time in my life; if I'd have started with Byrne's Spinerette story or even read #254 a year or three earlier, I probably wouldn't have become as deeply involved with the Fantastic Four.
Scribble King: Are there any other series beside Fantastic Four that you follow every month?
Sean Kleefeld: My reading list these days still consists mostly of Marvel books: Amazing Spider-Man, New Avengers, Black Panther, etc. The one non-Marvel superhero book I get is Green Arrow. I also pick up various other books that catch my attention for one reason or another: Planetary, Pirate Club, Dorothy, Stardust Kid, Girl Genius (which recently has moved away from the traditional periodical format), etc. I usually drop about twenty bucks a week on new comics.
Scribble King: How happy are you with the way the Fantastic Four is being handled in the comics at the moment. Would you consider this period to be a peak period in the quality of the series?
Sean Kleefeld: It's interesting now, as a Fantastic Four fan, because there are several different ways the characters are being handled simultaneously. You've got the "main" book; you've got a less-adventure, more-deep-characterization version in the Marvel Knights line; you've got the kid-friendly version in Marvel Adventures; you've got the Ultimate version; you've got the movie version... What I think is cool right now is that, regardless of your personal preferences on how the characters are handled, there's a good chance there's an FF book out there that speaks to your preferences. So, in that sense, you could consider this a peak period.
Scribble King: Have there been other periods when you thought the Fantastic Four books were more fun to read?
Sean Kleefeld: For me, personally, I've been reading Fantastic Four for over 20 years and I've read just about all of their appearances. Certainly all the significant ones. So while I definitely still enjoy the stories today, the sense of constant wonder and amazement at how new everything was when I first began two decades ago has subsided somewhat. So, in that sense, it was "more fun" when I was a kid, learning about the characters for the first time.
That said, I'm intrigued by some of the ideas J. Michael Straczynski is starting -- although it's still early for me to make a final judgment on that. The Ultimate book has had some interesting twists on the concept, I think. I'm also interested to see if/how the movie version speaks to mass audiences in a way that other versions can't.
Scribble King: Which writer/artist do you think were best for the Fantastic Four?
Sean Kleefeld: Best writer and artist for the FF? Jack Kirby and Stan Lee, hands down. They set everything up and established everything that's "right" about the characters. John Byrne would be my second, largely because it was during his tenure that I saw the long shadow Stan and Jack cast for the first time.
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"The Fantastic Four are much more difficult to nail down than a Spider-Man or Superman. Irrespective of special effects, you've got at least five characters that have to be completely and utterly believable as people."
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Scribble King: It has taken a long time for this new movie version to get off the ground, even though the Fantastic Four is one of the most consistently successful comic series around. Why do you think it has taken this long?
Sean Kleefeld: From a production perspective, the Fantastic Four are much more difficult to nail down than a Spider-Man or Superman. Irrespective of special effects, you've got at least five characters (the FF and one antagonist) that have to be completely and utterly believable as
people. With most movies in this genre, you've only got one lead and one adversary; that's a lot less that a creative team has to deal with. The FF have a collective relationship with the antagonist, but there's a also a definite relationship between Reed and Sue, between Sue and Johnny, between Johnny and Ben, between Ben and Reed, between Reed & Sue and Johnny...
Additionally, the FF have an unusual origin that requires explanation. X-Men took a while to get off the ground because of the group aspect, but they got done before Fantastic Four, I think, because the explanation for their powers is much simpler: a couple of lines of dialogue in the opening scenes and they're done. From a structural perspective, an FF story is much more complex and more difficult to pull off.
Scribble King: Did you see the movie version from 1994? And if so, is it really as bad as people claim it to be?
Sean Kleefeld: It's really not a bad movie per se. The effects weren't up to ILM standards, certainly, and there are some decent sized plot holes, but the cast very clearly poured their hearts into it. The tag line for the original Superman movie was, "You'll believe a man can fly." It wasn't that the special effects were that ground-breaking, it was that Christopher Reeve wholly believed in the character and sold it to the audience. I think the same holds true for the '94 FF movie: the cast wholly believed in the characters and sold them very well.
So, yeah, the Fantasticar is a really obvious scale model, and it's laughable that Mr. Fantastic's entire library of notes would be stored in a single, unlocked, half-empty file cabinet, and physics gets thrown out the window when the Human Torch out-races a laser over the Atlantic... but the cast so believed in their respective roles, and sold them so well -- despite some corny dialogue -- that it's actually a decent movie on the whole.
Scribble King: What are your thoughts about the cast and director for the new movie, did they pick actors that seem right for the parts, or are there any other actors that you would preferred to have seen in the leading roles?
Sean Kleefeld: Honestly, it's very hard for me to judge this. I don't watch many TV shows or movies, so I'm almost wholly unfamiliar with their talents and abilities. I'm probably most aware of Michael Chiklis, but mainly through promos for The Shield; I've never seen an actual episode. The only thing I've seen Jessica Alba in has been Sin City, which she seemed to do well in -- although her role there was more ancillary. Everyone else is pretty much a blank slate, so I'm not coming to Fantastic Four with many pre-conceived ideas.
Scribble King: Are you in any way worried that they chose a director who so far has only made comedies, or do you think he has a good handle on the material?
Sean Kleefeld: Conceptually, I don't have a problem with choosing a director who is or isn't known for a particular genre. I think a lot of media try to pigeonhole people into certain roles, regardless of their actual talents. If somebody in charge recognizes talent, or at least potential, for someone else to expand their known repertoire, that's great. Of course, I would expect them to deliver on that at the end of the day, though.
Scribble King: What are your feelings about this new movie version anyway, do you think this could be a comic book movie that could rival the best of them, or are you worried that it might end up at the other end of the spectrum, where movies like Catwoman and Steel are collecting dust?
Sean Kleefeld: I'm hopeful, of course, that it will do at least as well as Spider-Man or X-Men. From what I've seen and heard so far, it certainly has that potential. My biggest concern is actually with the hype surrounding the movie; I wonder if it's being promoted too heavily and that it's setting audience expectations too high. The movie studios all seem to recognize this as THE summer blockbuster, which is great, but if it's sold as the best thing since sliced bread, that could well set up expectations impossibly high, making any quantitative or qualitative results disappointing.
Scribble King: Did you like the trailers that were released to promote the movie?
Sean Kleefeld: The first two didn't really do anything for me one way or the other, honestly. At that point, I could see the movie going either way. The third trailer, though, I think really started to show me that there was at least a basic understanding of the characters and that it wasn't going to be just an excuse for special effects.
Scribble King: What is your impression of the way that the filmmakers have handled the Fantastic Four? The new Batman movie is being praised for the way it stays true to the source material and that they have respected the fans of the character. Do you feel that is also true for Fantastic Four?
Sean Kleefeld: From what I've seen and read so far, it seems like everyone's been very respectful of the source material and the pre-existing fan base. You've got your "Flame on" and "It's clobberin time" for the long-time fans, of course, but those are mainly window dressings. Sure, you're going to get some people complaining about superficial issues, like casting Kerry Washington as Alicia Masters, but I think that most fans will be happy as long as you're respectful of the source material.
Scribble King:What do you think of the recent comic book movies that have been released?
Sean Kleefeld: I actually haven't seen too many of them, to be honest. Part of what I like about comic books is the medium itself. I just find it, on the whole, much more satisfying than movies or television, so I'm not quick to go to the theater just to see something that was adapted from a comic book. I did see Sin City, which I enjoyed a great deal. Before that, the last comics-turned-films that I saw were Hellboy, which was enjoyable, and League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, which... wasn't as enjoyable.
Scribble King: Both Marvel and DC are very active at the moment in having their most popular (and more obscure) characters turned into movies, and there is a long list of comic book movies coming up. Personally, I love comic books and superhero movies, but I'm a little bit worried
that there are too many coming out right now and that people might get bored with them, especially when some of those are not so good as the best examples from the genre. What are your thoughts on that development?
Sean Kleefeld: My concern isn't so much much with which properties are used, but with HOW they're used. Blade's a great example. He was an extremely minor character, one that I suspect a lot of comic fans wouldn't even recognize. But he was given a decent movie treatment and Wesley Snipes got into the role and sold us a good story. On the other end of the spectrum, we have a well-known character like Batman, but when he's put in Joel Schumacher's infamous nipple suit, it just about killed the character's (and for that matter, the genre's) movie franchise.
Just about any character Marvel or DC has come up with could be a viable movie, but it would require a cast and crew who believed in the characters enough to make us believe in them. The comic book movies we're seeing now (at least, the decent ones) still follow the same
basic tenets of storytelling. Just as every other decent film does. It doesn't matter if we're talking about a science fiction adventure, or a goofball comedy, or a reinterpretation of Shakespeare. We, as the audience, need to believe in the characters and connect with them at some level. You put the right people on Devil Dinosaur or Brother Power and you can have an infinitely more powerful and successful movie than by putting the wrong people on Superman or Captain America.
Scribble King: Let's imagine for a second that you are the producer of the next Fantastic Four movie. What storyline from the comic would you think is perfect for a next movie? And could you tell a little bit what it is about?
Sean Kleefeld: I think the natural inclination for a lot of fans would be to do The Galactus Trilogy as the next movie. Personally, I would rather save that for a third movie, though. But what would be slick, I think, would be to actually follow the Lee/Kirby idea by doing the Inhumans as the second movie (basically following FF #44-47) and use a similar transition to Kirby and Lee's originals to lead into the third film with Galactus.
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